--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Pete and Erin"
wrote:

> none of these HH have specifically asked us not to list or mention
> the find.

Listing your find is not the same as actually posting a listing for
the HH at letterboxing.org, AtlasQuest or Pete & Wanda's site. If
you keep a web page with your finds, by all means feel free to list
it there. If the HH is listed at letterboxing.org, etc., feel free
to log it there. If however, the originator has chosen NOT to list
it, you should respect that decision.


> In fact, I rarely even get an acknowledgement when we report the
> find to an originator.

What kind of an ackowledgement are you hoping to get? It would be
nice if everyone had the time to do a few back-and-forth exchanges
regarding every letterbox find, but for most people, this is a side
interest -- in addition to work, family, eating, sleeping, etc.
While reporting a find is courteous and greatly appreciated, I am not
of the opinion there is any further communication needed past that.


> We have listed several previously unknown HH on Wanda and Pete's
> site, after attempts to contact the originator were unsuccessful.

Why on earth would you list somebody else's box or HH? If it is not
listed, I think it is logical to assume, the creator CHOSE NOT to
list it. Who are you to come along and decide it should be listed?

> If in the opinion of you veterans, this is wrong, sorry, but
> its been over 2 years - I dont think the originators are too
> upset about it.

They probably aren't aware that the HH they chose NOT to list has
been listed by somebody else. How would they know unless they make a
habit of browsing the HH list looking for their HH's that they never
listed in the first place? Frankly, before reading this thread, it
never occurred to me that somebody else might list one of my HH's at
letterboxing.org or Pete & Wanda's site.


> IMHO, I say in the absence of any specific instruction NOT to
> report/list/pass-on or whatever, and after reasonable attempts to
> contact the originator have failed, go ahead and submit the thing!

Given that the protocol has previously been for letterboxes and HH's
to be listed, or not listed, only by the creator, why would anyone
expect to find a HH specifically asking people NOT to list it? When
they released it 1-2-3+ years ago, nobody would ever have dreamed
that future letterboxers would be disrespectful enough to second-
guess their original decision (to list or not to list) and take it
upon themselve to list the box/HH.


> After all, this is supposed to be a hobby with no rules, only
> guidelines.

The no rules part pertains to how you choose to play the game -- your
boxes, your hunting practices, etc. It does not give you free rein
to take control of and make decisions regarding other people's
letterboxes and HH's.

SpringChick

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE WOULD WASTE THIER TIME BY SEARCHING FOR
HH THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE THERE! YOU ALL NEED TO STOP REACHING INTO
YOUR BAG OF EXCUSES OF WHY OTHER DON'T DO WHAT THEY DO, AND SHUT UP.
MAYBE FROM NOW ON, I SHOULD PLACE MY BOXES FOR PEOPLE TO FIND AND
NOT POST THEM ANYWHERE! OH WOW THAT WOULD BE FUN! DON'T YOU THINK?
MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN B*TCHIN ABOUT "ROOKIES", HAVE BEEN
AROUND FOR YEARS. I DON'T HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE THAT YOU ALL HAVE.
YOU CAN CALL ME A "ROOKIE" IF YOU WANT, BUT I PLAN ON BECOMING A
VETERAN. NOT BY B*TCHIN AT WHAT PEOPLE SAY, BUT BY GIVING THEM MY
OPINION. SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUT SPRINGCHICK IN HER PLACE, BECAUSE IN
MY "OPINION", SHE IS RUINING IT FOR THE RESPECTABLE LETTERBOXERS,
THAT DON'T DISECT EVERYONES POSTS ON THE SITE. THEY LOOKING
UP "OPINION" IN THE DICTIONARY. THEY LOOK UP HOBBY! GET OVER IT NOW!

david (team new hampshire)

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "alwayschaos"
wrote:
>
> I have a couple of HH out there that are YEARS old, before LBNA
> thought of listing such a thing and before I knew there was a HH
list
> kept by another boxer. Had I known these things at the time of
> release I would have listed in the log that I didn't want the HH
> listed anywhere. I didn't note in the log to "please be quiet"
about
> the HH because that was the norm before someone, somewhere decided
to
> change it for everyone.
>
> Some of the HH's logbooks were full and someone kindly offered to
add
> a new logbook and mail the full one to me. I can't be sure they
knew
> or thought of to list a note not to post it anywhere. Not their
> fault.
>
> To me, HH's are a surprise and listing them somewhere takes away
that
> surprise. All one would have to do is see what boxes had been
listed
> found by a particular boxer and easily figure out where the HH was
> placed.
>
> My thought is, if it's yours do what you want with it. If it's
not,
> don't assume.
>
> > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Pete and Erin"
>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > none of these HH have specifically asked us not to list or
mention
> > > the find.
> >
> > Listing your find is not the same as actually posting a listing
for
> > the HH at letterboxing.org, AtlasQuest or Pete & Wanda's site.
If
> > you keep a web page with your finds, by all means feel free to
list
> > it there. If the HH is listed at letterboxing.org, etc., feel
free
> > to log it there. If however, the originator has chosen NOT to
list
> > it, you should respect that decision.
>

-David,

You seem to have found my HH - Hoppin' on. No it is not listed on
LBNa(Letterboxing.org), because when it went out, I listed it on
Wanda and Pete's site. I'm pretty sure that I couldn't list it on
LBNa when it was launched, but that doesn't really matter. However,
you stated that you have has my HH for some time and I have not
replied back to you. I am very involved in Letterboxing, I have not
just put stuff out there and then quit. We have quite a few boxes
out there that we maintain and more planned and carved and ready to
go. I got your e-mail dated (copied from the email) Tue, 1 Nov 2005
19:47:11 -0800 (PST. I opened up the e-mail, and since I don't know
who you are or what problems you were refrencing, I decided to check
out the letterbox-usa site and see what was going on. I'm really
glad that the "parasite" owner e-mailed you back so quickly, but I
have another life. Also yesterday's e-mail is the 1st one i've gotten
from you. Maybe another one went into my bulk mail and got deleted,
I don't know.
This list is notoroius for DRAMA, which is why I am rarely on it.
You might want to try one of the other letterboxing sites to get away
from all the bickering and griping.
As for my HH, I will NOT be listing it on the LBNa site, but I may
list it on the AQ site. I agree that HH/boxes should only be listed
by the owner/placer/adopter. And Hopppin on has a owner. And I am
recognized on the LBNA site. I have boxes listed and finds logged.
HH's are not to be hunted for, they were supposed to be bonuses. Not
something you go looking for.

I don't want to offend you, but all this drama is just ridiculous.

The number of finds isn't really all that important is it. Isn't
this just supossed to be lots of fun???



Jennifer
Jensgreycar






-- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "gingerbreadjunk"
wrote:
>
> I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT SOMEONE WOULD WASTE THIER TIME BY SEARCHING
FOR
> HH THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE THERE! YOU ALL NEED TO STOP REACHING INTO
> YOUR BAG OF EXCUSES OF WHY OTHER DON'T DO WHAT THEY DO, AND SHUT
UP.
> MAYBE FROM NOW ON, I SHOULD PLACE MY BOXES FOR PEOPLE TO FIND AND
> NOT POST THEM ANYWHERE! OH WOW THAT WOULD BE FUN! DON'T YOU THINK?
> MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN B*TCHIN ABOUT "ROOKIES", HAVE
BEEN
> AROUND FOR YEARS. I DON'T HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE THAT YOU ALL HAVE.
> YOU CAN CALL ME A "ROOKIE" IF YOU WANT, BUT I PLAN ON BECOMING A
> VETERAN. NOT BY B*TCHIN AT WHAT PEOPLE SAY, BUT BY GIVING THEM MY
> OPINION. SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUT SPRINGCHICK IN HER PLACE, BECAUSE IN
> MY "OPINION", SHE IS RUINING IT FOR THE RESPECTABLE LETTERBOXERS,
> THAT DON'T DISECT EVERYONES POSTS ON THE SITE. THEY LOOKING
> UP "OPINION" IN THE DICTIONARY. THEY LOOK UP HOBBY! GET OVER IT NOW!
>
> david (team new hampshire)
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "alwayschaos"
> wrote:
> >
> > I have a couple of HH out there that are YEARS old, before LBNA
> > thought of listing such a thing and before I knew there was a HH
> list
> > kept by another boxer. Had I known these things at the time of
> > release I would have listed in the log that I didn't want the HH
> > listed anywhere. I didn't note in the log to "please be quiet"
> about
> > the HH because that was the norm before someone, somewhere
decided
> to
> > change it for everyone.
> >
> > Some of the HH's logbooks were full and someone kindly offered to
> add
> > a new logbook and mail the full one to me. I can't be sure they
> knew
> > or thought of to list a note not to post it anywhere. Not their
> > fault.
> >
> > To me, HH's are a surprise and listing them somewhere takes away
> that
> > surprise. All one would have to do is see what boxes had been
> listed
> > found by a particular boxer and easily figure out where the HH
was
> > placed.
> >
> > My thought is, if it's yours do what you want with it. If it's
> not,
> > don't assume.
> >
> > > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Pete and Erin"
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > none of these HH have specifically asked us not to list or
> mention
> > > > the find.
> > >
> > > Listing your find is not the same as actually posting a listing
> for
> > > the HH at letterboxing.org, AtlasQuest or Pete & Wanda's site.
> If
> > > you keep a web page with your finds, by all means feel free to
> list
> > > it there. If the HH is listed at letterboxing.org, etc., feel
> free
> > > to log it there. If however, the originator has chosen NOT to
> list
> > > it, you should respect that decision.
> >
>

Very nicely said, Warrior Woman.

No one needs to be put in their place. Many of us vets have either made or seen these very same mistakes made and we're just trying to lend you our knowledge or expertise, if you will. In a non-threatening, educational manner.

The problem here is the medium that we are using. Email tends to be so impersonal - tone and expressions cannot be read. These boxers who have responded to any of these posts, including SpringChick, have taken the time to offer their knowledge and expertise. Use it as you wish but please respect these opinions.

The vets of this group hold this game very close to their hearts. We're passionate about this hobby. That's what many of you see happening here. Passion and the love for something that we feel we must protect - like our children.

In time, those of you who disagree may see what we mean. And then again, some never will.

But above all, let's remain civil and agree to disagree.

Mark

PS. I suggest you read this list from the very beginning. Disagreements and differences in opinion are what made this list strong.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUT SPRINGCHICK IN HER PLACE


Hahahahahahahahahahah!!!

Brian
TeamGreenDragon

> Also yesterday's e-mail is the 1st one i've gotten
> from you. Maybe another one went into my bulk mail and got deleted,
> I don't know.

You know, that's a really good point for those people who complain
about not getting a response after using Contact the Placer: E-mail is
notoriously unreliable. LbNA being on a shared server makes e-mail
even less reliable than it otherwise would to boot. They might end up
bouncing if the IP address tagged as being a source of spam (and while
LbNA doesn't send spam, other websites that share the same IP address
might), it might end up in a person's spam folder (I get so much of
that now, I don't even browser through the spam folder like I used
to), or maybe even the person went on vacation and their e-mail box
quota had already been filled.

E-mail can be an *extremely* unreliable method of communicating, and
that was the MAIN reason I created AQ mail for Atlas Quest--to take it
out of that unreliable loop. Since I started digests on AQ, I took it
one step further and now require people to verify their e-mail address
before AQ will send digests to help ensure people don't miss them.

Even with all that, though, it's not a perfect system, and
occasionally e-mails don't make it to their intended destination. If
it's really important you contact someone and get a reply, remember that.

-- Ryan